Woozle Hypertwin
 Durham, NC,  
Personally, I find many of them so awful that they simply have to be working for Russia, trying to provoke hate for both Hillary and Bernie.

Also: that guy "Joseph Teller"... I do not believe him to be arguing in good faith.

ThomThom wrote the following post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 19:00:59 -0400

"Former Hillary Clinton aides want the American public to know that they’re still mad about Bernie Sanders."

My thoughts and comments made in Diaspora conversations about this article

My comments made at post by @Paul Ferguson

I think Clinton could have been a good candidate. But some things would have needed to have happen:
  • Her staff and party big shots would have had to allow the primaries to be run fairly. If she won fair and square without the perception of a fix - it would have been a great place to start.
  • Had her campaign surrogates not been cynical assholes that trusted paid consultants (that get paid no matter who wins or loses) more than activists working the ground game state to state - they would have known they were in trouble in Wisconsin and the other states in their so called firewall - and they could have made necessary changes re: get out the vote.
  • Had her campaign not decided that they didn’t need grassroots progressive Democrats in their camp and had they not openly mocked progressives as children that didn’t know how politics worked - she might have actually won.
Obama won with a big tent. But let’s recap the past decades since Bill Clinton’s time in office.
  • Gore ignored the progressive Democrats and let the presidency be stolen from him by the GOP hustle and con.
  • Kerry ran a similar campaign to Gore’s - seeming to have learned nothing.
  • Obama flipped the script and followed his community organizer’s instincts and won with numbers that GOP suppression and grift couldn’t stop.
  • Then, HRC goes back to the tired old losing strategy that corporate Democrats seem to love.
It really seems to me that these corporate Democrats would rather lose the election than work with progressives.
Most of the progressive Democrats I know are grown adults with a very clear understanding of how our political system works and stil, we are asking our party do better. And we actually expect them to have a big tent and to include us in the decision making process.

They ignore us at their peril. 2018 should be the play book. We won so many seats stepping left towards the progressive end.
My comments made at a re-post by @Valkyrie

@Joseph Teller The problems I find with your comment are as follows:
  • I don't believe your numbers - I've read a lot of analysis and your numbers do not jive with the takeaways I've had being knee deep in 538 et cetera.
  • Re: Bernie supporters as republicans just to stab at Clinton - I'd like to see a source supporting this speculation - I'm guessing the number straddles zero when the margin of error is accounted for. No numbers, then I'm going to categorize it as biased assumption.
Which is fine, I just don't put any value in your line of thinking without evidence.
That spoiler troupe tarring progressives is so tired and it has been wrung to death since Gore's loss. Establishment Democrats shit on progressives and then lose elections and then blame the people they shit on for their losses.

Pro-tip - fascism is orders of magnitude more dangerous than corporate democrats AND young &/or zealous progressive neophytes.

Obama’s team understood this. They reach out to progressives - put up the biggest Democratic Party tent in decades and win epically. Go figure. Maybe establishment Dems should wake the fuck up and realize that coalitions and big tents have always been what wins elections in a 2 party system.

Maybe follow the example of Obama’s team. It’d be nice to win a presidential election at least one more time before the demise of our republic.

Instead we have cult of HRC assholes crying and sniping about "Bernie's not a real democrat" (he ran in the democratic primaries, he carcasses with the Democrats - in function, he's a fucking Democrat, even if he doesn’t run for office in Vermont as a Dem [for local/state reasons] - he’s definitely more of a Democrat than that asshole congressman in West Virginia.)

Not that some of the Bernie supporters (male, female and trans) are helping matters - having purity tests of their own with the ridiculous "Bernie or bust" mentality. Or the shit-brained idea that there is no difference in terms of political reality between the GOP and corporate Democrats.
Winning elections is about sharing power, cooperation and organizing the fuck out of our people. Categorically and arrogantly insulting whole tribes of people with-in your political party and party adjacent sympathizer groups is fucking stupid and the mindset of people that love losing.

I don't know about you, but I believe we can win, I want us to fucking win and winners don't bitterly hold grudges against team mates. We have to smarten the fuck up. Goddammit. I'm so sick of the motherfucking liberal/left sniping.

Winners fucking own their mistakes. Winners dispassionately watch the game tapes and accept honest criticism instead of looking to pin the blame on the people riding the bench.

The truth is, Clinton lost because her people made tragic mistakes - some born out of arrogance and hubris, some out of a lack of imagination. But the blame isn't 100% on her team. Russian subversion of our electoral process and systemic cheating and fraud on the part of the GOP is also largely to blame.
It is my belief that had HRC's team embraced leftist in the party (rather than antagonized and infantilized them) allies not exactly card carrying Democrats but otherwise more politically aligned with the Dems than with the fascist party of the GOP - I believe Clinton could have turned out the vote in great enough numbers to overcome the GOP gerrymandering, nationwide large scale voter suppression efforts and the Russian subversion of the election - nearing an election night landslide. Hell, had she listened to her people on the ground in Michigan and other "firewall states" lost, she might have won in a nail biter.

Mature and intelligent people understand that neophytes are always impatient with the status quo and rather than see them as a threat, we need to harness that energy and give them, if not a seat, at least into the room. Ambition and engagement may be more of a hassle to deal with but it is so much more effective than apathy and disenfranchisement.

The right has a motivated impassioned (dare I say inflamed) base - it is fueled by fear, hate and ignorant bigotry. Without progressives, Democrats do not have that dynamo of enthusiasm necessary to get out the vote in every district of every state.

6-figure salaried political consultants that get paid no matter who wins are not going to win elections alone. Elections are won by heart and soul, but heroic efforts of everyday people on the ground being a living part of our democracy.

There is nothing more fucking stupid than to blame voters and potential voters for our loses. To feel entitled to anyone’s vote is a loser's attitude. We have to earn every fucking single vote.

To belittle voters and potential voters is a rich kid boss mentality. Being assholes to people we need at the polls is beyond moronic. The people are the true boss - not party leadership. Don't get it fucking twisted.
If we want to win - might I suggest we stop feeding the "Bernie was a spoiler" myth. You'll just alienate progressives - people that might do more than just go vote Democratic on election day. People that'll go vote, that'll canvas neighborhoods, that'll get excited and talk up our candidate at church, at the grocery store, on the job, during sex, during school - stoked people are infectious, man.

I volunteered for Obama's 1st campaign even though he wasn't my favorite policy-wise. I drove around TN with Obama bumper stickers and had my car vandalized. I was stoked.

I would have volunteered for HRC's campaign but her staff were being fucking cocks to progressives from the start of the primaries. The whole "grow up" attitude demoralized me and my attention was diverted to the mundane chores of being a contributor to family life and a full time worker.

Obama's people had me stoked and I was excited. They made up campaign stickers and handouts for all kinds of people, Truck drivers for Obama, Reformed crypto-anarchist time travelers for Obama, Federalist for Obama - they were reaching out to anyone that wanted to get aboard the Obama train. I did stuff during my lunch break and ate in my car omw back to work. When we’re excited, we make sacrifices.

As someone with ADHD - shit like enthusiasm isn't a choice - it's a biological reality that can determine whether I do something or not (please don’t ask me how late my taxes are.) I'm sure the same dynamic works similarly for neurotypicals, though maybe a little less intensely. People do what they are motivated to do. Lecturing them about how terrible they will be if they don't vote the way some party boss tells them to vote is a fucking idiotic way to motivate people. Shame is literally one of the dumbest motivators. But, if we want to lose elections, I can’t think of a better strategy.

Excited people with enthusiasm win elections. Period.

For the record nearly every single Bernie supporter I know voted for HRC. In the primary, I voted for Bernie. In the election, I voted for Hillary Clinton even though I live in TN and it is RED as fuck and my presidential vote is statistically a wasted vote no matter who I vote for.

@Valkyrie - exactly. Another fun fact, some progressives are never going to vote for Democrats, and no progressive is ever going to vote for right wing fascists. Further poking holes in the Bernie progressives were spoilers myth.